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Definitive Guide on DB Speeds - Metaphors, Exaggerations, and Literalism
Topic Started: Jul 24 2014, 07:45 PM (1,976 Views)
Mihawk
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So after getting a bit tired of all the abuse of gags, metaphors, and other statements that continually get used in our "Other Versus" section I decided to make one or two topics on DB debunking these misinterpretations. These will also be some of my last posts on the topic since I think I should be the one to grow up and move on instead of thinking others in the section need to grow up and stop defending their childhood cartoon from the "lesser" new anime.

Starting from the most infamous of all "Goku is faster than lightning"

Faster Than Lightning

"Kaminari yori mo Hayaku!!" (カミナリよりも速く!!), or "Quicker than Lightning". This anime episode never took place on the original manga timeline, and should therefore be considered non-canon to the original work. I understand that there's multiple ways to see canon, but throughout this post I'm going to be listing the most objective possible interpretations.

The next is possibly the most infamous of all "Popo told Goku to become faster than lightning".

Strength Checker, Herms
Chapter: 164, P4.4
Popo: “We’re incredibly high up in the sky here. The air is thin. It’s tough on you humans. That’s why it’s no good for people like you who make so many unnecessary movements. This is an important principle, even down on the ground. A stance as quiet as the sky, movement as fast as lightning.”

The way I see it, the only ones who should be given slack on this are those under the age of 14 or don't have English as their first language. This is known as a hyperbole.

Dictionary, Reference.com
noun, Rhetoric
1. obvious and intentional exaggeration.
2. an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”.

The sky is not something you would literally be calm as.

Faster Than Light

Lightning isn't enough, apparently.

"Laser" Dodge


Yeah so Goku is faster than light here, but he isn't fast enough to deal with an incoming mechanical arm.

First off, this most likely is NOT a laser beam. I'm not saying it has to not be one, just that there is no evidence of it being one. Even if it was one would there be any reason for Toriyama to write it in as light speed? And even if was one, what evidence is there to prove there was no charge time here as with a KHH wave? The burden of proof resides on those claiming he's dodging a fast as light laser beam, but still unable to dodge the mechanical arm.

The next one I really haven't seen much. From what it seems it was used a lot before and for some reason along the timeline, it was dropped. It seems to be making a come back on this forum thanks to Kyouks, who was originally trolling when bringing it up.

Sequence of Events


As with the last one, we have Goku here faster than the speed of light, but somehow he's so slow Tenshihan can speak his entire sentence in between without getting hurt. Hey man. Go figure.

To actually get to the point, it's pretty clear Goku saw the attack coming. In between from when he started to charge up his flash to the actual move, he's already getting ready to move to Roshi and take his shades. It's clearly very fast movement however, just not anywhere near the speed of light.

Valid and Uncontradicted Speed Occurrences

I'm not trying to downplay DB into some type of weak series where God forbid it'll lose out to other anime. Oh, the horror. There are some legitimate feats around the series timeline; there's just no reason to bring up hyperbole and vastly over exaggerate events in order to keep up with the changing anime/manga world.

Multiple Bullet Dodges


He's clearly not just predicting where the wolf will shoot since he dodges multiple bullets at the same time. We also have the implication from his facial expression.

Much Faster Than Machine Gun Fire


Roshi also disposes multiple shots from machine gun fire with ease.

Swimming Across the Planet Within a Day


From what I understand this is nearing the Snake Way feat already.

If there are any others that you feel people are misinterpreting to some absurd proportions feel free to post them below

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Rogafufuken
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The first paragraph feels kinda spiteful imo.

Great post though.

Are you gonna continue on to Z, or what?
Edited by Rogafufuken, Jul 24 2014, 07:55 PM.
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Mihawk
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Yeah I think you're right it could be a seen as offensive. I'll try to edit it a bit.

And DBZ is a bit too hard. People also use the feats there less thanks to the Gotenks feat. It's somewhat the central feat depending on how you interpret it.

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+ Ssj3vegito96
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Personally I think lightning statement is a hyperbole too

Gokudafallen might've had a good point though. For the sake of simplicity, it could've been literal and toriyama does prefer to write things with simplicity. Goku took the statement literally too when he tried it

What do you guys think?
IT'S CHEESE
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Mihawk
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The quiet as the sky part already sealed it. Context is key.

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* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

Itachi
Jul 24 2014, 08:37 PM
The quiet as the sky part already sealed it. Context is key.
Context is irrelevant, Itachi. You should know that already.

Great thread, man! No doubt I'll be referencing it quite a lot in the future.
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+ Clearin
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I don't see how it is impossible to be as quiet as the sky.
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Mihawk
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Clearin
Jul 24 2014, 08:51 PM
I don't see how it is impossible to be as quiet as the sky.
Being quiet would imply that you make noise in the first place.

Alternatively, if you're looking at it from the perspective that inanimate objects do make noise, then the sky also makes thunderbolt noises. Quiet doesn't work very well in that sense.
Edited by Mihawk, Jul 24 2014, 09:01 PM.

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Itachi
Jul 24 2014, 08:58 PM
Clearin
Jul 24 2014, 08:51 PM
I don't see how it is impossible to be as quiet as the sky.
Being quiet would imply that you make noise in the first place.

Alternatively, if you're looking at it from the perspective that inanimate objects do make noise, then the sky also makes thunderbolt noises. Quiet doesn't work very well in that sense.
"Quiet as the sky" just means being silent. I don't see the problem with it.
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Mihawk
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Clearin
Jul 24 2014, 09:02 PM
Itachi
Jul 24 2014, 08:58 PM
Clearin
Jul 24 2014, 08:51 PM
I don't see how it is impossible to be as quiet as the sky.
Being quiet would imply that you make noise in the first place.

Alternatively, if you're looking at it from the perspective that inanimate objects do make noise, then the sky also makes thunderbolt noises. Quiet doesn't work very well in that sense.
"Quiet as the sky" just means being silent. I don't see the problem with it.
But you can't be the same as an inanimate object other than through rhetoric. You're already intepreting it from the rhetorical sense which is why it makes sense to you.

personification
noun 1. the attribution of human nature or character to animals, inanimate objects, or abstract notions, especially as a rhetorical figure.

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* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

Look at the entire context of the quote, though. Popo is basically telling him to make no wasted movements, to be precise with everything that he does. Seems weird that he'd throw in a literal statement with all that.
Edited by Yu Narukami, Jul 24 2014, 09:09 PM.
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Mihawk
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When I said impossible it was a hyperbole too, if that helps you understand.

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Naked Snake
Jul 24 2014, 09:08 PM
Look at the entire context of the quote, though. Popo is basically telling him to make no wasted movements, to be precise with everything that he does. Seems weird that he'd throw in a literal statement with all that.
But the entire quote is literal, except probably the end.

Quote:
 
Popo: “We’re incredibly high up in the sky here.

Literal

Quote:
 
The air is thin. It’s tough on you humans.

Literal

Quote:
 
That’s why it’s no good for people like you who make so many unnecessary movements. This is an important principle, even down on the ground.

Literal

Quote:
 
A stance as quiet as the sky

A bit weird since "the sky" doesn't have a set volume. It's obvious Popo means a completely calm sky that moves no noise, in which case it could be literal since being as quiet a calm sky just means to literally make no noise. The quote "as quiet as the sky" by itself can't really be literal though since you can't literally be as quiet as something with no set volume.

Quote:
 
movement as fast as lightning.”

Could be literal, but based on later feats (or lack of) it's likely not.
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Mihawk
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You can't be as calm as the sky because either the sky is too calm (for any anime object to compare to) or the sky is too un-calm to compare to (thunderbolts, etc).

It's a metaphor in the most basic sense.
Edited by Mihawk, Jul 24 2014, 09:35 PM.

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Itachi
Jul 24 2014, 09:34 PM
You can't be as calm as the sky because either the sky is too calm (for any anime object to compare to) or the sky is too un-calm to compare to (thunderbolts, etc).

It's a metaphor in the most basic sense.
Like I said, being as "quiet as the sky", which in this context almost certainly means the calm sky, just means "be silent". If a calm sky makes no noise, and you make no noise, you're being literally as quiet as the sky.

It's probably not literally possible for any real human to be 100% silent, but this is an Anime. It's not literally possible to lift 40 tons, or go to speeds surpasssing a jet plane while flying. I don't doubt that DBZ characters can literally be completely silent if they train enough.
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